?

Log in

No account? Create an account

Look Back | Look Forward

Coat of Arms - Order of the Couch



Much back-and-forth over at The Confusion Couch about a coat of arms, a motto, something that will represent our camaraderie and flights of fancy.

Bmonk has given us a crest to work with; his description: "Black shield with a white couch, and a jagged green border. Above the couch a gold star. Green = Pibgorn’s color for her world. Jagged border (“dancetty”) for the dance of the fairies, but also to indicate confusion. Black for the darkness of the confused surrounding the couch, and also for the faithfulness of the couch crew despite being in the dark. The gold star for the “favorites”, but also for the enlightenment that eventually comes to us."

I took the liberty of gussying it up a bit, with a cauldron for a helm, signifying all the good recipes we share, and Pib and Dru rampant, because I like to look at them. So there. No other reason. Motto: Omnes me confundit - "Everything confuses me".

Here's a place to gather together any and all suggestions. No sign-in is required to post a comment. No idea will be considered foolish, or too loony. Comments will be screened, however, and may take until the next morning to become visible if they are posted late in the evening.

Once we have something that everyone is either pleased with or can live with, I'm going to see what can be done about formalizing it.

Ready? Go!


Support Wind Power

respective-eponymous

Comments

Page 1 of 3
<<[1] [2] [3] >>
(Anonymous)
Apr. 30th, 2009 05:40 am (UTC)
As mentioned at the Couch, the cauldron should be headwear, as you already know. BUT, if the cauldron's empty, it culd be turned upside down and used as a big hat. :)

Thanks for the place to gather heraldic ideas. I'll try to draw my thoughts and post here somehow??

Cheers,
Saskfan
ccdesan
Apr. 30th, 2009 05:42 am (UTC)
Upside-down cauldron as a helm. Nice idea! Hey, if Don Quixote can use a shaving basin and Johnny Appleseed a saucepan, why not a cauldron?

Edited at 2009-04-30 06:00 am (UTC)
The Hearaldry - (Anonymous) - Apr. 30th, 2009 11:45 am (UTC) - Expand
Re: The Hearaldry - ccdesan - Apr. 30th, 2009 04:16 pm (UTC) - Expand
(Anonymous)
Apr. 30th, 2009 05:54 am (UTC)
The Coat Of Arms
I like it...I like it!
From O.B.
(AKA Vic.)
(Anonymous)
Apr. 30th, 2009 08:42 am (UTC)
Coat of Arms
Story Teller, here. May I suggest instead the motto "Always confused." Semper Confundit...? Or perhaps "It's all so confusing." Don't have my latin book handy for that one. I'd kind of like to see at least one of my squirrels, but that's not a deal breaker. The green border could be scaled back a touch, otherwise what you have is grand! Did you try having the gals backing the shield instead of facing it?
ccdesan
Apr. 30th, 2009 04:17 pm (UTC)
Re: Coat of Arms
Did the girls facing out first, it doesn't look bad either way. Looked at "real" coats and usually the Lion and the Unicorn - for example - are facing the crest. Either/or... whatever folks like best.
Re: Coat of Arms - inshadowz - Apr. 30th, 2009 09:36 pm (UTC) - Expand
Re: Coat of Arms - ccdesan - Apr. 30th, 2009 09:45 pm (UTC) - Expand
(Anonymous)
Apr. 30th, 2009 12:31 pm (UTC)
Very pretty (especially the ...um... "ramparts")

But the Latin is wrong. The plural subject and singular verb do not agree. Correct is either:
Omnis me confundit (singular, Everything confuses me)
or
Omnes me confundunt (plural, All things confuse me)

(Though I suppose letting it stet could imply that Latin and/or grammar are among those things which confuse?)
ccdesan
Apr. 30th, 2009 04:19 pm (UTC)
In the back of my mind I had a feeling that the latin was punk - Exeunt omnes was shouting at me, saying "It's plural, you cretin!", but I was too tired to go look it up. "Omnis" is correct, of course, and thanks. I think the singular is probably better for this particular motto - others may invent something that is even better!
(Anonymous)
Apr. 30th, 2009 01:21 pm (UTC)
Gilding perfection
Very nice.

When I saw the post, my first thought was to have only the left side of the Couch clear, the right side fading off into smoke in the shape of a question mark. Fading off, because all know that the Couch is infinitely extensible, embracing even skulkers like the insignificant speck that is my humble self; and into smoke like a question mark to denote the confusion into which some enter at the door, and in which some of us perpetually wander ...

Not to gild [no I did not say geld!] the lily, but those were my first thoughts, before seeing the Old Wolf's most artistic design above.

[Any relation to Akela?]

jsdy
ccdesan
Apr. 30th, 2009 04:20 pm (UTC)
Re: Gilding perfection
I love the concept of a couch fading off into the mists of confusion... don't know how that would look, but it's an imaginative idea...
sleepyjohn00
Apr. 30th, 2009 01:28 pm (UTC)
What, no chequy frog?
ccdesan
Apr. 30th, 2009 04:22 pm (UTC)
Careful, dude, I'll bend a gules around your rampant sable...
(Anonymous)
Apr. 30th, 2009 01:28 pm (UTC)
Cauldron as helm
Cauldrons need not be inverted to be worn as headgear. There is precedent.

http://www.sfmoma.org/images/artwork/large/2001.88.127_01_b02.jpg

jsdy
ccdesan
Apr. 30th, 2009 04:23 pm (UTC)
Re: Cauldron as helm
Love it!
(Anonymous)
Apr. 30th, 2009 02:54 pm (UTC)
Pardon my intrusion. While not a formal couch member, I have taken some voyeuristic pleasure from the posted conversations. You might considered me the lurker in the back garden with his nose against the glass. If you would permit me a minor suggestion with regard to the shield; perhaps a division - party per bend sinister (of course) - with the upper tincture Vert (Pibby's colours) and the lower Gules (for Dru.)
ccdesan
Apr. 30th, 2009 04:37 pm (UTC)
Don't stand out there in the rain, friend, pedo mellon a minno! You mean something like this?

OTC Heraldry - (Anonymous) - Apr. 30th, 2009 08:06 pm (UTC) - Expand
Re: OTC Heraldry - inshadowz - Apr. 30th, 2009 09:41 pm (UTC) - Expand
Re: OTC Heraldry - ccdesan - Apr. 30th, 2009 09:46 pm (UTC) - Expand
(Anonymous)
Apr. 30th, 2009 03:07 pm (UTC)
further thoughts and observations
@ccdesan, I like the supporters and motto for the crest, but I agree that we should have a helm of some kind, or possibly a coronet, with the cooking crock as a crest. After all, we should be a proper Order, even if we are confuseled or comfounded or whatever. And I do like Saskfan's description of the bordure with dancetty orle, though I might suggest a tressure (thinner version), for a blazon thus:

Sable a couch argent, in chief a mullet or, with a tressure dancetty argent bordured vert. (Did I get that right, Saskfan?)

And I don't get uptight about the sizes--my sketch was just that, a first, rough effort with poor tools. I think the border is too wide and the charges (couch/star) too small, but they were what I had to get the effect.

Bmonk, Instigator
ccdesan
Apr. 30th, 2009 06:04 pm (UTC)
Re: further thoughts and observations
@Bmonk: I agree that we need a helm of some sort, but I haven't a clue what would be appropriate. Let's think a bit.



Nah. Traditional, but not relevant. Waitaminnit! We've got several options that might work:







Edited at 2009-04-30 06:05 pm (UTC)
(Anonymous)
Apr. 30th, 2009 03:26 pm (UTC)
OTC Heraldry
I like colors/signification and simplicity. The choice of girls, GREAT. Excellent Motto. I know everything has a meaning including the direction. What if the girls had their backs to the shield? What would that indicate?
ccdesan
Apr. 30th, 2009 04:42 pm (UTC)
Re: OTC Heraldry
You're the second to suggest the girls facing outward - I don't know if it would have meaning or not. As I said, I tried it both ways at first, and I liked this version - and this is just me - because of the way the... um... well... "legs", embraced the crest. It seemed more... "intimate".
Re: OTC Heraldry - inshadowz - Apr. 30th, 2009 09:52 pm (UTC) - Expand
(Anonymous)
Apr. 30th, 2009 03:28 pm (UTC)
Hmm..
Since the couch is Escherian, how about a Mobius strip with pillows instead of the central sofa? (I have no idea how to say that in heraldic language) - Jcordaro64
ccdesan
Apr. 30th, 2009 04:45 pm (UTC)
Re: Hmm..
Heh. To describe that, I think you'd have to get Mark Twain involved with his peculiar brand of heraldic imagery. Could one design a couch as a tesseract? Or a Klein bottle? What would a three-dimensional projection of a fourth-dimensional couch look like? Hmm...
(Anonymous)
Apr. 30th, 2009 04:55 pm (UTC)
Cookpot or Fedora or?
This is what I posted before I saw the link.
I like Pib and Dru on the sides looks very elegant!
Since there has been diverse commentary the heraldic device… cookpot, fedora… seems to me since this is about the couch and all we do not what happens in the comic. that a chefs hat would be more appropo for us considering the about of interest we have in combustibles. But I really wish the couch could be drawn M.C. Escher style! Not that I could do it, just the idea of it makes me smile.
I know nothing about this sort of thing, but in the school of art 'I know what I like' I don't like that there is a big blank space under the couch... maybe if it was a MCEscher couch it would be diminished, but barring that maybe we need a couple of squirrels or lurkers there.......LOL
ToniAnne - who is not in the mood to create an account...need a good new name.
ccdesan
Apr. 30th, 2009 06:07 pm (UTC)
Re: Cookpot or Fedora or?
Chef's hat... not a bad idea. See bmonk's comment above, and my reply, for a few options - we could try a chef's toque, too, if you like.

Other thoughts?
(Anonymous)
Apr. 30th, 2009 06:11 pm (UTC)
Couch Crest
I like where the girls are sort of facing each other. A duet on stage would have them closer together, facing out to the audience, as they are here. The cauldron may work as a hat but, goshdarnit, hungry couchers demand a "full" pot. Far off fading couch w/? mark. Sounds intriguing. As far as the couch itself goes I feel that it needs perhaps; lines of a different color or a pattern; a contrast of sorts as I wouldn't readily recognize it as a couch if I didn't already know that it is. By comparison; the girls are very recognizable as women and the pot appears to hold its own, also. "Everything confuses me", "I'm always confused" or something close works for me. Dad'll perk up when he sees it. (Did some time at Columbia U. in the early 50s, Catholic grade school also) When I write to where *smart* people will see it, I feel as though I'm going to be graded for spelling and punctuation. Got heavy welding gloves on in case the ruler comes out...
This shouldn't be too normal. After all.. the strip isn't *AND* it should maintain a humor.

Gweedo
ccdesan
Apr. 30th, 2009 06:28 pm (UTC)
Re: Couch Crest
Gweedo, see the options above under bmonk's post - a few helms that might work. I think we're all agreed that the design could use some tweaking, as you said to make the couch more visible/recognizable. I'm liking the idea of some extra-dimensional seating arrangement... let's see what else falls out when we shake the tree.
(Anonymous)
Apr. 30th, 2009 06:51 pm (UTC)
Couch Crest
On the changing headgear samples. The fedora has the best comic appeal.

Gweedo
(Anonymous)
Apr. 30th, 2009 06:56 pm (UTC)
Herldic Phuddy-duddy
I love the general idea but, being a heraldry geek, I have to point out one really big boo-boo (at least if it wants to be "proper" heraldry.
There is an ancient rule of contrasts: no light on light or dark on dark. In heraldry "sable, a bordure vert" would never be allowed as they are both "dark". the only two "light" tinctures are argent and or, white and gold.
So make the bordure yellow (or white) and all is groovy. And the comment earlier about the bordure being narrower was a good one.
I really likes the idea of the fedora as a "crown".
ccdesan
Apr. 30th, 2009 07:26 pm (UTC)
Re: Herldic Phuddy-duddy
Excellent comments. Striking an acceptable balance between official heraldry and outright whimsy will be the task of the Order of the Couch. On the other hand, an official crest would never permit a fedora as a helm, either.

Feeback?
(Anonymous)
Apr. 30th, 2009 07:41 pm (UTC)
It looks very nice, and I know I haven't said anything about it before, but why are Pib and Dru holding microphones? Also, I feel that Dru should be in her natural state, as Pib is. I understand that could spark up the debate of "Do we use the Red Dru or the Black Dru?" I wonder if Dru will stay black for very much longer? I suppose we could ask Brooke, but it might be part of the current storyline, and he may not want to divulge that info.
Anyway, if it isn't too much trouble (mucho props for the artistry, by the way), I think it would be more fitting for Pib and Dru to be embracing the shield, and not singing a duet around it.
AliKzam
ccdesan
Apr. 30th, 2009 08:24 pm (UTC)
The mikes are there only because I had a nice hi-rez image that I could manipulate, and it fit. I'm hoping a final version might be custom-designed - and I agree with you, I'd like to see the girls embracing the crest, or something similar.

What I'd like to see happen is for us as the members of the Order of the Couch to come up with a general design that we feel good about, and then have one or more final versions created and submitted to the community.
(Anonymous)
Apr. 30th, 2009 08:35 pm (UTC)
Coat of Arms
What is not to like?
ccdesan
Apr. 30th, 2009 08:47 pm (UTC)
Re: Coat of Arms
Thanks for your vote of confidence!
(Anonymous)
Apr. 30th, 2009 08:38 pm (UTC)
Coats That Don't Tie In The Back
Story Teller again. I rather like the helm that looks like it has threes charlies on it, but that's just me. Naw, loose the hat/helm as they are too well connected with specific story arcs, the cookpot is sufficient, though perhaps put that below the couch in the room made by the scaled back border. If we must have hat/helm, perhaps the fedora is the more universal symbol from the most story arcs, but I like the Black Knights helm just because it is more canon. I also like the dual color scheme on the border and, yes, once you pointed it out, the position of the legs is absolutely perfect! Perhaps a squirrel peaking out from the left side of the couch and the right side disappearing into infinity...? Yeah, that might be difficult to do.

The motto: the only problem is that while we are almost all always confused about something, we are not confused by *everything.* That is why I thought something more generic and to the point like "I am so confused!" would be better
ccdesan
Apr. 30th, 2009 09:01 pm (UTC)
Re: Coats That Don't Tie In The Back
The legs of the Romans may be bony (leges romanorum boni sunt) sed latina mea tam bona quam Macaronica mea non est... Help! bmonk or other real Latin scholars, we need someone to transtuli "I am so confused". (Who says words have to be raped from the participle, anyway? I'm sticking up for the perfect!)
Re: Coats That Don't Tie In The Back - (Anonymous) - May. 1st, 2009 11:28 am (UTC) - Expand
(Anonymous)
Apr. 30th, 2009 09:48 pm (UTC)
Couch Crest
First, let me say I love where we are going, and I can live with any of these modifications.

1) Girls - definitely facing in (preferably without mikes, hugging the shield)
2) Helm - I prefer just the cauldron - adding a real helm is too much
3) The two-color border is slightly preferred - looks good both ways
4) Motto - Latin for "I'm so confused" would be best, if we can find it - Omnis Me Confundit will do if we can't.

Lincolnhyde
ccdesan
May. 1st, 2009 01:33 am (UTC)
Re: Couch Crest
Noted!
(Anonymous)
Apr. 30th, 2009 11:41 pm (UTC)
Dual Border
The green/red border seems to give the best effect, enhancing the contrast with Pib and Dru's dresses. For headgear, definitely go with the Fedora: a highly versatile accesory: it can denote comedy,tragedy, menace, high drama, low cunning, signify greeting or farewell, tossed in joy, held to the breast in sorrow, tipped in salute, jauntily canted, or tipped back in exasperated CONFUSION!
ccdesan
May. 1st, 2009 01:34 am (UTC)
Re: Dual Border
I agree, I like the dual-color border as well. I favor the fedora, but have no axe to grind if the majority speaks otherwise.
(Anonymous)
May. 1st, 2009 12:24 am (UTC)
Suggestion from mfcoace
Let the cauldron wear the fedora.
Contrasting colors opposite the ladies works best
Is there room for crossed pibgorn instruments

Once the coat of arms is finished, consider a flag or pennant.
ccdesan
May. 1st, 2009 01:34 am (UTC)
Re: Suggestion from mfcoace
I'll see how that looks!
(Anonymous)
May. 1st, 2009 01:35 am (UTC)
About the artistic reply to the OTHER Heraldry geek, I say: if the bendy division is sinister, then the red/green (Red Green? Ewww!) division goes the other way - from the SHIELD's upper left to lower right. Sinister is the viewer's right side.

I know you're breaking the rules with two tinctures touching; and you're aware of the rule you're breaking. Hey, if Jerusalem can break the rule (AND the CA Kingdom of An Tir), then we can too. Though I personally would prefer a pibgorn than a star in chief. But that's just me. :)

Saskfan
ccdesan
May. 1st, 2009 02:28 am (UTC)
Order of the Couch, Version 2.0
Based on what seems to me to be majority opinions above, here is the next version to play with.

1) Lost the microphones, and gave you two options on the girls.
2) Chose the fedora - it seemed the most popular
3) Narrowed the border
4) Increased the size of the devices, and proposed a confused couch
5) Motto is a placeholder, until we decide what it should say.

Everything is subject to change.




ccdesan
May. 1st, 2009 02:41 am (UTC)
I like these girls better - but there wasn't enough of them to create full supporters with. Remember, the ones I'm using now are still more or less placeholders for something custom-designed. I favor the ladies facing the crest, but I'd like to see them "embracing" it, as it were...



Edited at 2009-05-01 02:43 am (UTC)
(Anonymous)
May. 1st, 2009 02:47 am (UTC)
Couch Crest
The hat and crock pot are lookin' good. The girls; inhh.. The couch looks like some kind of wedding cake. The "real" couch might look more lived in. Not broken springs sticking out, mind you.
Do **formatting** tricks work ​ *here* ?
ccdesan
May. 1st, 2009 05:54 am (UTC)
Re: Couch Crest
You can format with HTML tags...
Page 1 of 3
<<[1] [2] [3] >>

Profile

Fortunata
ccdesan
The Old Wolf
Website

Latest Month

April 2017
S M T W T F S
      1
2345678
9101112131415
16171819202122
23242526272829
30      

Page Summary

Tags

Powered by LiveJournal.com